Отправлено: 12.09.11 19:53. Заголовок: пароходы РАК

Доброе время суток, уважаемое сообщество.
Пару недель назад запостил в жежешечке любительский материал по пароходам Российско-американской компании http://gloky-koozdr.livejournal.com/2228.html#cutid1 Многим наверное материал покажется детским лепетом, но всё же очень хочется глубже копнуть тему. Особенно интересуют закупленные в САСШ винтовые суда(Император Александр II, Великий князь Константин), - они случаем в сиб. флотилию не вошли потом? А также загадочный железный пароход разрушенный союзниками на стапеле в Аяне. Может быть ув. AvM прольёт свет?

 Отправлено: 25.05.12 15:44. Заголовок: Глокий Куздр пишет: ..

Глокий Куздр пишет:

цитата:

By the way, AvM, may be you have an opportunity to have a look into "Hamburger Segelschiffe von 1795- 1945"?

You are thinking about the book of late Dr.Meyer?
But there are nearly complete lists of all seagoing Hamburg ships by Walter Kresse.

avm

 Отправлено: 28.05.12 07:37. Заголовок: AvM пишет: But ther..

AvM пишет:

цитата:

But there are nearly complete lists of all seagoing Hamburg ships by Walter Kresse

Here is a list of saling vessels of RAC built in Germany (in Hamburg and Lubeck mostly)

-Elizaveta (1820)
-Tsesarevitch (1850s)
-Kadiak (1850s)
-Shelekhov (1850s)
-Sitkha (1850s)
May be it will be interesting for you to have a look for them.

 Отправлено: 28.05.12 10:15. Заголовок: By the way, the hamb..

By the way, the hamburg companion of RAC was Christian Friedrich Schütt (in one source, but in RAC report he called Штурм (Schturm)). This may help in research.

 Отправлено: 28.05.12 12:45. Заголовок: Rare picture of RAC ..

Rare picture of RAC sailing ships:

Bark Nikolai I (built in Abo) and brig Constantine (built in US). Mid. 1840s

 Отправлено: 28.05.12 14:08. Заголовок: Nikolay I bark 1836 ..

Nikolay I bark
1836 Abo Skeppsvarf
450t ; 208 CL
1841 sold

Naseldnik Aleksandr
1837 Abo
300t

Atkha bark (Atka)
1847 Abo Skeppsvarf
450 215 CL (sw) 119.65x32.00x16.00 swft
1847 Atka E.Julin & Co
1846-1853 chartered

Sitkha barque (Sitka)
1846 Abo Skeppsvarf
450t 216 CL (sw) 115.30x31.00x16.50 swft
1846 Sitka E.Julin & Co
1846-1853 chartered

 Отправлено: 30.05.12 13:03. Заголовок: Suvurov (Suwarrow, ..

Suvurov (Suwarrow, Sovarow)
??? New York, NY, USA built
335t
Ex ??
1813 bought Kronstadt from US shipowner
1818 sold ?

perhaps:
Suwarrow 303t
NY offered for sale 1811 built 1807 303t North River
LRS 1814
Suwarrow S 303t Mass 1807 Hamilton 16ft LiTrtol 2-6C
ie she was in that time in Europe

Other ships with that name
LRS 1814
Suwarrow Sw 220 US built 1787 years Libbard 12ft LoBaltic
LRS 1816
Suwarrow Sw 220 US built ?? years Libbard 12ft LoBaltic
LRS 1818, 1819, 1820
Suwarrow Sw 188 US built 15 years J.Burrell 12ft LoLisbon
Suworoff Bg 175 US built ??? Stiglitz &Co 11ft WnCanrs

 Отправлено: 05.06.12 11:44. Заголовок: AvM пишет: Suvurov ..

AvM пишет:

цитата:

Suvurov (Suwarrow, Sovarow)

Ship "Суворов" (Suvurof, in name of glorious general) as I know, was a built in France, and suposed to be an ex-prize of napoleonic wars. She made her forst voyage under russian colours in 1813.

 Отправлено: 05.06.12 14:41. Заголовок: The names Suwarrow, ..

The names Suwarrow, Suvurov ,Sovarow are those used by various papers of the era.

 Отправлено: 22.06.12 13:47. Заголовок: Neue Münchener ..

Neue Münchener Zeitung 1854

Preußen. — Die .P-euß. Korr." vom 13. d. sagt: .Aus Memel wird uns ge,chrieben, daß die englische Damxffregat e »Amphion' am 10. d. M. um S Uhr Morgens die dortige Rhede verlassen hat, nachdem die Mannschaft an, Sonntage noch bis spät Abend« an der Einsetzung de« neuen BesanmafteS gearbeitet hatte. Bon Dampfschiffen find am S. .Riga' und .Lübeck» von Lübeck, und am 10. ,R,b»R°y' vonHull, beide mit Gütern beladen, dort eingelaufen. Die am 4 d. M, von Lübeck angekommene Gloop, die .Neue Hoffnung', welche Wein, darun» ter vielen Champagner, und Kartoffeln für die französische Flotte ge» laden hat, liegt noch im Hafen, weil der Kapitän noch nicht weiß, ob er selbst die Flotte aufsuchen, oder sein« Ladung dem zurückerwarteten Darnpfboote .Erogroßberzog Friedrich Franz' zum Weitertransport übergeben soll. Die Proviantbefrachtung teS oben genannten Dampf« boote« so wie der Sioop ist nicht für Rechnung der franzöftfchen Ne» gierung, sondern auf Spekulation geschehen. — Mit dem preußischen Dampsboot .Friedrich Wilhelm IV." waren von Königsberg her t>9 -l.n,,1ilt <!5, >,i'<!k:-t.V >" I -h? 1'" N5?I'< » - s..'"' '>'.-'"

Mann, die Besatzung russischer in Lübeck uud Hamburg liegender Schiffe, in Metrie! angekommen, welche nach Rußland Weiler befördert werten. ES sind darunter 34 Mann von dem der russischen Kompagnie in Pe» teröburg gehörigen Schiffe .Czarewitsch', Kapitän Goorgin, welches sich mit einer reichen Ladung Thee und Seide, trotz der Vigilanz der eng» lifchen Kriegsschiffe, nach Hamburg glücklich durchgeschlichen hat. DaS Schiff soll halb Kauffarthei» halb Kriegsschiff sein und im Ganzen 70 Mann Besatzung haben. Unter diesen liö Königsberg per Eisen» bahn tranSportirten Leuten befindet sich auch die Mannschaft der drei nach Riga gehörenden und in Lübeck liegenden Schiffe: .E^po', .Presto' und .Anna". — Dem Memeler Lootfen»Komrnandeur sind von einem »»bekannten Geber SV Thlr. zur Aushändigung an den alten Fischer übergeben worden, welcher die Leiche de« verunglückten Kapitän Koot vom .Konflikt aufgefunden'hat. — Am Sonntag Bormittag wurde auch Memel von einem heftigen Ungewitter heimgesucht. In Folge der star» ken Regengüsse hat da« in der Umgegend kräftig stehende Getreide sich fehr gelagert; doch besorgt man keinen erheblichen Schaden, da da« Wetter sich zu bessern scheint.'

 Отправлено: 05.07.12 22:15. Заголовок: AvM пишет: Neue M&#..

AvM пишет:

цитата:

Neue Münchener Zeitung 1854

Oh, great, thanks but OCR of the text is not very good. Is it possible to have a look on the original scan of the paper.

 Отправлено: 07.07.12 20:44. Заголовок: From Archives of L&#..

It is from:

http://books.google.de/books?id=8ClEAAAAcAAJ&pg=RA1-PR36&dq=Schiffe+.Czarewitsch&hl=de&sa=X&ei=5XX4T9feHYzKtAaN68CoBQ&ved=0CDgQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=Schiffe%20.Czarewitsch&f=false

From Archives of Lübeck:

KODIAK mit 238 1/4 Lübscher Lasten und Metallboden. Neubau für Amerika - Petersburger Gesellschaft. 17.7.1851 Bescheinigung des Baumeisters, 19.7.1851 Bielbrief (Bauschein von der Werft) und 26.7.1851 Schiffspassage nach St. Petersburg. Später wrack in Alaska vorgefunden und soll eventuell gehoben werden.

 Отправлено: 08.07.12 21:44. Заголовок: LRS 1804 Nadeyde shi..

LRS 1803
Leander ship
built River ie Thames 4 years old
430t draft 18ft
owner Campbell
master G.Brown
voyage LoGrnda
in Supplement data as below


LRS 1804
Nadeyde ship
built River ie Thames 5 years old
430t draft 18ft
owner Russia Co
master J.Wilson
voyage LoPtrsbg

 Отправлено: 08.07.12 21:48. Заголовок: The Naval Chronicle,..

The Naval Chronicle, Band 12 (1805)

As time were no Ships in Russia fit for the purpose, it was resolved that two should be purchased in England. Captain-Lieutenant Usianski, destined to command one of the Vessels belonging to the expedition, was for this purpose sent with M. Rasumof, an eminent Ship-builder, to this country, where they bought, for 5000I. sterling, the Leander of 470 tons, three years old; and for 17,0001., the Thames, of +30 tons, built twenty months. The sheathing with copper, and the repairing of these Ships, cost about 5000I. more. The name of the former was changed to the Nadeibda (the Hope), and the other to that of the Neva, and both were to proceed to Cronstadt at •oon as the season would permit. The names of the Officers appointed to the Nadeshda were as follow :—

Krusenstern, Captain-Lieutenant, Commander.

Radmonof, ^

loloval'ef, [lieutenant,.
Lovenstern, *
Bellingshausen, Midshipman.
Kamenschikof, Pilot.
Bistram, Garde Marine.
Dr. Espenberg, Surgeon.
Those appointed to the Neva were:

Lisianski, Captain-Lieutenant, Commander.
Arbusof, Lieutenant.

Dmiofikoi,} Midshipmen.

Kalinin, Pilot.

 Отправлено: 08.07.12 21:58. Заголовок: From British documen..

From British documents

Thames (1800) 372bm

She should be the same with

LRS 1803
Thames ship
built River 3 years old
332t 16ft draft
owned Taylor & Co
master W.Lindner
voy LoHamburg

 Отправлено: 08.07.12 23:07. Заголовок: In 1799 on the Thame..

In 1799 on the Thames were built
CAMDEN 430t
WELLERBY 457t
HANOVER 447t
AUGUSTUS CESAR 412t

so very probably LEANDER was one of them.

 Отправлено: 09.07.12 13:11. Заголовок: I have found Corn Tr..

I have found
P.E.Mestaer , Rotherhithe built
ship THAMES for South Seas 374t
lauchned 14.12.1803
now a sloop of War

 Отправлено: 22.07.12 15:52. Заголовок: Das eLieber Herr vo..

Das eLieber Herr von Mach,

leider kann ich nicht viel beitragen.

Zur Russian-American Company habe ich keine Erkenntnisse. Es war mir neu, daß Weser-Schiffe bzw. deutsche Schiffe dorthin verkauft worden sind.inzige Schiff, das ich identifizieren kann, ist die SHELEKHOV barque ex LINA. Diese wurde 1845 von Rickmers in Bremerhaven für Hamburger Auftraggeber gebaut. Was ich über die LINA weiß, ist in "Von der Weser in die Welt" Band III S.214 zu finden. Den Verbleib des Schiffes wußte ich bisher nicht.

Im übrigen bat mich Herr Walter, Ihnen seine Antwort auf Ihre Fragen zu übermitteln. Das mache ich hier:
"Bei der Shelekhov brig handelt es sich höchstwahrscheinlich um die Brig
Johann Christoph, gebaut 1852 von Ernst Dreyer in Altona für C. H. Donner in
Altona, 136 CL. Karting (Von Altona nach Übersee, Band 2, Bremen 1999 S. 77)
beschreibt den Lebenslauf sehr detailliert. Danach war das Schiff
hauptsächlich in der chinesischen Küstenfahrt eingesetzt und ging 1866
wieder von Hamburg nach Fernost. Karting schließt: 'Im "Verzeichnis der
Altonaer Schiffe" von 1868 ist das Schiff noch verzeichnet, 1869 nicht mehr.
Sein Schicksal ist unbekannt.' Sollte es sich hier tatsächlich um Ihr Schiff
handeln, wäre ich Ihnen für folgende Informationen sehr dankbar: Jahr der
Umbenennung, neuer Name, Schicksal des Schiffes.
Zur Kamchatka hatte ich einen Ausdruck aus dem Malmstein-Register des Norsk
Maritim Museum Oslo, wonach das Schiff 1908 abgebrochen worden ist. Nähere
Angaben fehlen mir, leider kann ich zZt auch das NMM aus irgendeinem Grund
nicht aufrufen. Hier wäre ich Ihnen für Angaben zum Bauort sehr dankbar,
weil das Schiff zumindest nach dieser Quelle nicht umbenannt worden ist.
Die anderen Schiffe kann ich leider nicht identifizieren."

So weit Herr Walter.

Dr. Peter-Michael Pawlik

LINA bark
23.4.1845 Rickmers, Bremerhaven #11
120CL 293grt 27,2x8,1x4,4m
Andreson, Höber & Co, Hamburg
20.5.1845 Hamburg-Cadiz-S.America , master P.Knudsen
1846/7 Hull-Valpariaiso
1849 sold

 Отправлено: 22.07.12 23:13. Заголовок: Глокий Куздр пишет: ..

Глокий Куздр пишет:

цитата:

By the way, the hamburg companion of RAC was Christian Friedrich Schütt (in one source, but in RAC report he called Штурм (Schturm)). This may help in research.

Chronik des Hamburger See-Assecuranz-Geschäftes ... 1824-25:
listed
C.P.V. Schütt
F. Schütt in Havana

I have found only some ships of the latter.

In 1815 i have found
C.F. Schütt in Breslau (acting London via Hamburg)

 Отправлено: 23.07.12 01:23. Заголовок: Sun, page , vol. XX..

Sun, page [1], vol. XXXVIII, iss. 17
Publication Date: December 7, 1855
Published as: The Sun
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
December 7, 1855

FRANCE

The Rothschilds have purchased the Russian prize ship SITKA for 8,000 pounds.

 Отправлено: 31.07.12 23:31. Заголовок: Terrible Shipwreck a..

Terrible Shipwreck and Loss of Eleven Lives.

By the arrival of the steamer Moses Taylor, Oct 22d, we have the following distressing account of human suffering and loss of life at sea. The brig Shelehqff, Capt. Hopken, it will be remembered, took a cargo of cattle from these Islands to Tahiti in December of last year.

The following statement from the pen of H. M. Whitney, Esq., who was a passenger by the steamer, will be read with absorbing interest:

On Thursday, Oct 19th, at 8 A. M., a sail was discovered by the wheelman on the steamer Moses Taylor. The vessel lay directly in the steamer's track, and appeared to be disabled, having but one mast standing, and only her lower topsail set, running before a fresh southeast wind. On approaching her, it proved to be a brig, water-logged, with her mainmast carried away, apparently deserted, no persons appearing in sight on board. * » * *

It proved to be the American brig Shelehoff, 213 tons register, of San Francisco, bound to Callao with a cargo of lumber. The Burvivor was Capt. Luder Hopken, the last of twelve persons on board at the time of the disaster. The brig was caught in a cyclono on the night of July 3d, the same date of the solar eclipse. * » * *

The accident occurred in N. lat. 16 and W. long.

The following paper was prepared by Captain Hopken, Sept 10th, on board the brig, to be left in case no one survived. It gives the list of crew and passengers:

American brig Shelehoff'. of San Francisco, wu water-logged on the 8d of July, 1871, in a hurricane, lat. 16° north and long. 117 o west Was afloat till Sept.— This was written on the 10th Sept 1871, 70 days at sea.

Capt Luder Hopken, Master, San Francisco; Mate, T. Johnson, of Schleswig Holstein; Second Mate, James MacCarley, Port Petrice, Migdonshire; Steward, Phillip Dunn, S»n Francisco. Seamen— Levedore Police, Rebosto Sicilia, Mitchell Velago, Bajerro Calabria, Italy; Andrew Larssen, Sweden; Lona Lewis Nessen, Flcnsburg, Germany. Cabin passengers—Ashley Crane, Charles Davis, San Francisco; Charles Kurtz, Tubingen, Germany— [New York papers copy] Bartholomew Clawell, native of Charlevillo, Department de Sardensu, (France?)

Written on board the brig Shelehoff, Monday, Sept 10, 1871. We have suffered hard from hunger and thirst.

Crew, passengers and officers beg to send this to San Francisco, and publish in the papers.

In the Nautical Almanao were found the following entries: July 3d, cyclone; vessel waterlogged. Sept. 6th, Andrew Larssen died ; Sept 18th, Lewis Nessen died ; Sept. 22d. Bart. Clawell died ; Sept 21st, on the wreck 80 days ; 92 days from San Francisco. No rain. Nothing to eat.

Saturday, Sept. 30.—We are on the wreck 89 days. Four dead. Please advertise this in papers.

Monday, Oct. 15.—105 days on the wreck. All hands dead, except the Captain and one j Crane.

 Отправлено: 31.07.12 23:52. Заголовок: SHILEHOFF (1870); SH..

SHILEHOFF (1870); SHELEHOFF (1871; 1872; 1873; 1875; 1876; 1877; 1878)
RIG: B r ig
OFFICIAL NO: 23734
SIGNAL LETTERS: J. G. L .H.
GROSS: 213.45 (1870; 1871; 1872; 1873; 1875; 1876; 1877; 1878)
HOME PORT: San Francisco, CA (1870); Eureka, CA (1871; 1872; 1873); San Francisco, CA (1875; 1876;
1877; 1878)
YEARS LISTED: 1870 ; 1871; 1872; 1873; 1875; 1876; 1877; 1878.
NOTES: Listed as wrecked in 1871

 Отправлено: 20.08.12 13:26. Заголовок: GEORGE S.WRIGHT stea..

GEORGE S.WRIGHT steamer ON 10374
1863 Port Ludlow, Wash.
214t or 289t
In Siberia for Russian-American Telegraph Company 1866-1868
Carried mail to Alaska
reg Port Angeles, Wash.
Lost , with all on board in 1873

 Отправлено: 09.09.12 02:00. Заголовок: Tsaritsa 1854 Geo. R..

Tsaritsa
1854 Geo. Raynes Portsmouth,NH
1089t (USR) or 946t 178.4x36.2x17.9ft
Ex Coeur de Lion
May’56 coppered
1858 W.F.Parrot ,Boston, USA
reported sold Hamburg 1857
1861 ???; Hamburgh

 Отправлено: 14.01.13 14:06. Заголовок: AvM пишет: Tsaritsa..

AvM пишет:

цитата:

Tsaritsa 1854 Geo. Raynes Portsmouth,NH 1089t (USR) or 946t 178.4x36.2x17.9ft Ex Coeur de Lion May’56 coppered 1858 W.F.Parrot ,Boston, USA reported sold Hamburg 1857 1861 ???; Hamburgh

By the way, Tsaritsa - the only RAC big sailing ship with plans existed, because Chapelle made a line plan of her from half-hull modell.

She (Coeur de Lion) was purchased by RAC in 1860 in Hamburg and after 1867 flew under swedish colors and with russian name. Wrecked in 1915 near south Sweden.

And again to Ida and Constantin. Take a look on this online auction catalog file http://www.grafficserver.de/wag/downloads/61-63/1644-1760.pdf The resolution of the documents scans is very poor, but may be its real to read some text?

 Отправлено: 14.01.13 14:16. Заголовок: AvM пишет: so very ..

AvM пишет:

цитата:

so very probably LEANDER was one of them.

According to the memoirs of members of expedition, in 1799 Leander probably was not built but just recaptured. Captured in 1796 by french privateer L'Egyptienne, and recaptured two years later.

 Отправлено: 15.01.13 11:59. Заголовок: AvM пишет: Tsaritsa..

AvM пишет:

цитата:

Tsaritsa 1854 Geo. Raynes Portsmouth,NH 1089t (USR) or 946t 178.4x36.2x17.9ft Ex Coeur de Lion May’56 coppered 1858 W.F.Parrot ,Boston, USA reported sold Hamburg 1857

registered Boston 31 Jan 1854 Boston #34
Coeur de Lion ship 1089 50/94t
W.F.Parrot , Boston
surrednded : abroad 25 Sep 1858
rem from reg 25 March 1859

I have not found her registered at Hamburg (German) nor Bremen area.
so perhaps sodl already 1858 direct tu Russian company
mentioned by
Reinemuth, Rolf. Segel aus Downeast. Herford 1971
"Zaritza" Swedish flag 1876 (I will check it later)

 Отправлено: 15.01.13 12:43. Заголовок: AvM пишет: LRS 1803..

AvM пишет:

цитата:

LRS 1803 Leander ship built River ie Thames 4 years old 430t draft 18ft owner Campbell master G.Brown voyage LoGrnda in Supplement data as below

I have
Leander
reg London 20 November 1799 #460
Built Deptford 1799
Master: Charles Anderson
429 72/94t

reg London 23 November 1801 #455
Built Deptford 1799
Master: George Brown
429 72/94t
registry closed 4.4.1803
Sold to foreginers

 Отправлено: 15.01.13 13:00. Заголовок: AvM пишет: From Bri..

AvM пишет:

цитата:

From British documents Thames (1800) 372bm She should be the same with LRS 1803 Thames ship built River 3 years old 332t 16ft draft owned Taylor & Co master W.Lindner voy LoHamburg

This Thames
reg London #321 22 Aug 1800
master William Linder
372 1/94t

reg London #61 19 Feb 1802
master William Linder
357 62/94tt
Sold to foreigners

 Отправлено: 15.01.13 13:12. Заголовок: AvM пишет: Built De..

AvM пишет:

цитата:

Built Deptford 1799

Very likely the episode with L'Egyptienne is just a legend. How knows

 Отправлено: 15.01.13 21:12. Заголовок: Глокий Куздр пишет:..

Глокий Куздр пишет:

цитата:

AvM пишет:  цитата:Built Deptford 1799 Very likely the episode with L'Egyptienne is just a legend. How knows

??

My data are from The National Archives, Kew , list of ships registered in London.

Where you have L'Egyptienne?