Отправлено: 12.09.11 19:53. Заголовок: пароходы РАК

Доброе время суток, уважаемое сообщество.
Пару недель назад запостил в жежешечке любительский материал по пароходам Российско-американской компании http://gloky-koozdr.livejournal.com/2228.html#cutid1 Многим наверное материал покажется детским лепетом, но всё же очень хочется глубже копнуть тему. Особенно интересуют закупленные в САСШ винтовые суда(Император Александр II, Великий князь Константин), - они случаем в сиб. флотилию не вошли потом? А также загадочный железный пароход разрушенный союзниками на стапеле в Аяне. Может быть ув. AvM прольёт свет?

 Отправлено: 16.01.13 08:34. Заголовок: AvM пишет: Where yo..

AvM пишет:

цитата:

Where you have L'Egyptienne?

From the report of RAC memeber Shemelin to direction of company and also the meeting with this french privateer mentioned in memoir of Levenshtern (another member of expedition). Capt. of L'Egyptienne told russians that he had captured that ship (Nadezhda) in 1796 and loosed in 1799. But the words of french capt. probably were not true. We cant be sure.

 Отправлено: 16.01.13 08:45. Заголовок: AvM пишет: ?? By t..

AvM пишет:

цитата:

??

By the way... Did you had a look on the action papers about capt. Ofterdinger (link above)? If Ida don't treced anywhere after 1856-57, may she is really the Constantin?

 Отправлено: 16.01.13 16:43. Заголовок: Глокий Куздр пишет: ..

Глокий Куздр пишет:

цитата:

AvM пишет:  цитата:?? By the way... Did you had a look on the action papers about capt. Ofterdinger (link above)? If Ida don't treced anywhere after 1856-57, may she is really the Constantin?

I have found a steamer (no nation given) Constantine trying to bring via Hamburg to Russia smuggle war material during Crimea War.
We have suggested that she was Dutch one, but not as such traced.

 Отправлено: 16.01.13 22:27. Заголовок: It is only compilati..

It is only compilation

1810 Wigram & Green, Blackwall
ship CAESAR
Reg London #418/1810 21 Sept 1810 626 41/94 J.Fowler, master
Reg London #509/1810 4. Dec 1810 626 41/94 J.Fowler, master
voyages London-Jamaica
Reg London #304/1817 21. Nov 1811 609 44/94 J.Taylor, master
voyages London-Bengal
c Okt 1818 purchased by Russian American Company
Borodino
c 1827
Owner:Muller&Co
Master: Morrosof -> Mentrup
Served as convict ship to LO NSW
1828
Master: Mentrup
Served as convict ship Co (Cork?) NSW
1830 not listed

 Отправлено: 16.01.13 23:22. Заголовок: priveteer ship Caes..

privateer ship
Caesar
master Fowler,Jonathan
626t
armed: 20x18&12
license: 1810 November 10

privateer ship
Caesar
master Shand,James
626t
armed: 20x18&12
license: 1812 October 13

 Отправлено: 18.01.13 12:23. Заголовок: Глокий Куздр пишет: ..

Глокий Куздр пишет:

цитата:

By the way, Tsaritsa - the only RAC big sailing ship with plans existed, because Chapelle made a line plan of her from half-hull modell.

Zaritza
there is a drawing and reconstruction plan in Nautical Reseach Journal No.15 p. 33-37

"A painting of COEUR DE LION is now located in the Smithsonian Institution, it is not on general display to the public, but thanks to James Knowles I was able to photograph it. The painting is a fine piece of work and some details were found to correspond with the MacLean article. The bulwarks and longboat hid the water tanks, sad to say, and I have not the slightest idea as to their form. The painting did show the poop deck, her guns on plain view, these must have been no more than six-pounders, more like four. I doubt if she could handle the load of larger guns that far aft. The wheel seems to be on iron standards, I drew this up on the plan sheet, but will add that I am not sure of this point. Her bulwarks were panelled, MacLean makes no mention of this but the painting clearly indicates this. In all cases one must regard paintings with caution, the artist may have known nothing about ships, in this case I had MacLean's article for a guide, things work out well."

 Отправлено: 24.01.13 19:31. Заголовок: AvM пишет: there is..

AvM пишет:

цитата:

there is a drawing and reconstruction plan in Nautical Reseach Journal No.15 p. 33-37

Very interesting! The plan in the journal made from original plans or reconstructed from hal-model (like Chapelle's)?
By the way, I have merged the tiled painting from Smithsonian digital collection. Here it is:

 Отправлено: 28.01.13 15:00. Заголовок: Winged Arrow clipper..

Winged Arrow clipper
1852 E. & H.O. Briggs ,South Boston
1052rt (old) 933 (new)
2 Aug 1852 Baker & Morrill Boston
30 Nov 1866 reg New York
Sold at San Francisco 1868
Went under Russian Flag

 Отправлено: 28.01.13 17:00. Заголовок: AvM пишет: Winged A..

AvM пишет:

цитата:

Winged Arrow

She delivered all New Archangel russian citizens (more than 300 persons) to St. Petersburg after Alaska was sold

 Отправлено: 31.01.13 17:28. Заголовок: L.02.09.1845 Newbury..

L.02.09.1845 Newburyport
273; 85CL
Angola US
15.10.1845 reg Salem Edward D.Kimball (Elbridge G.Kimball , Benj A.West & Capt Saml Warney Boston Courier; Date: 09-08-1845; Page: 4)
1847 purchased in Honolulu, Hawaii
Knyaz Menshikov bark Russian_American Company
17.12.1869 reg S.Francisco (Menschikoff) since whaling , owned Louis Genstle, S.Francisco
223 1/95t 105x23.9x12.3ft
18.09.1872 reg. S.Francisco #12 owned Fredric Clay, S.Francisco ON17963
07.11.1874 enrolled S.Francisco
28.06.1876 reg. S.Francisco #5, owned Fredric Clay, S.Francisco
14.11.1876 reg. S.Francisco #26, owned Fredric Clay, S.Francisco
14.11.1876 reg. S.Francisco #27, owned Orrington Betts
1879 reg Levuka, Fiji, 1879, ON75377 (MENSHIKOFF )
By 1890 reg Sydney, NSW, Chas G. Warburton ,Sydney ,Barque
By 189x reg Sydney, NSW, R.McNamara , Sydney ,Barque
by 1894 reg. Dunedin, NZ , The Union Steam Ship Co of New Zealand Lim., Barque
still listed MNL, 1900

 Отправлено: 31.01.13 19:13. Заголовок: http://savepic.org/2..

 Отправлено: 31.01.13 19:16. Заголовок: AvM пишет: L.02.09...

AvM пишет:

цитата:

L.02.09.1845 Newburyport ... still listed MNL, 1900

Wow! Long life

 Отправлено: 31.01.13 21:51. Заголовок: Глокий Куздр пишет: ..

Глокий Куздр пишет:

цитата:

AvM пишет:  цитата:L.02.09.1845 Newburyport ... still listed MNL, 1900 Wow! Long life

Really very interesting :)

Please note that all registers after 1870 give her built place as 1847 Baltimore.

Similary bark Cyane ex Nakhimoff was also given built in 1848 in Baltimore,
I am just trying to localize her origins.
There was bark Cyane built 1848 Richmond, Virginia.

 Отправлено: 31.01.13 22:03. Заголовок: AvM пишет: Nakhimof..

AvM пишет:

цитата:

Nakhimoff

Its a RAC ship? I dont have it my RAC ships list.
Among anothe america-built ships are (i know about):
Lapwing (Okhotsk) 1822
Arab (Baikal) 1818
Tally-Ho (Chichagov) 1820-s
Brutus (Golovnin) 1809
Lydia (Ilmen)

 Отправлено: 31.01.13 23:42. Заголовок: Глокий Куздр пишет: ..

Глокий Куздр пишет:

цитата:

AvM пишет:  цитата:L.02.09.1845 Newburyport ... still listed MNL, 1900 Wow! Long life

Note the article followed. She extant till 1906, when was broken up.

 Отправлено: 01.02.13 10:23. Заголовок: Глокий Куздр пишет: ..

Глокий Куздр пишет:

цитата:

AvM пишет:  цитата:Nakhimoff Its a RAC ship? I dont have it my RAC ships list.

Of course. Bought 1856. 1867 sold.

 Отправлено: 01.02.13 10:29. Заголовок: Глокий Куздр пишет: ..

Глокий Куздр пишет:

цитата:

Among anothe america-built ships are (i know about): Lapwing (Okhotsk) 1822

NOT YET TRACED

Глокий Куздр пишет:

цитата:

Arab (Baikal) 1818

Baikal
1818 Thacher Magoun, Medford , Mass
215 or 230t or 225t
ex Arab of Captain Thomas Meek ( ?)
registered Boston
1824 bought

Глокий Куздр пишет:

цитата:

Tally-Ho (Chichagov) 1820-s

Chichagov
1824
150t
Ex Tally –Ho
Josiah Marshall, Boston
1827 bought for 8500 seal skins
NOT YET TRACED

Глокий Куздр пишет:

цитата:

Brutus (Golovnin) 1809

Galovin brig
1809 Christopher Turner, Frye’s Mills, Salem
199t or 140t
built for Nathaniel Garland,
Boston owned by Jonathan & Nathaniel Door & 3 partners
Ex Brutus of Captain David Nye ( ?)
1819 bought at Sandwich Islands

Глокий Куздр пишет:

цитата:

Lydia (Ilmen)

NOT YET TRACED


ALSO
Elena ship (Helena)
1818 New Bedford
400t 110ft2inx28ft7inx14ft
8.1.1819 Helen registered at New Bedford James Hillman & others
1823 bought New Bedford

 Отправлено: 01.02.13 11:41. Заголовок: ANOTHER TWO NOT CONF..

ANOTHER TWO NOT CONFIRMED REALLY

Amethyst
1801 Enos Briggs, Salem
270t 97ft
1812 bought from Captain T.Meek (?)
Perhaps “Truvor “
200t
Ca.1812 bough from Americans

Yunona
By 1801 Boston built
206t or 250t
Ex Juno Bristol., Rhode Island
1812 (?) bought from Captain John D’Wolf (
1811 wrecked 25sm from Petrapovlosk

 Отправлено: 19.02.13 21:22. Заголовок: http://savepic.org/2..

Which ships are here? Kakiey korabli nakhoditsya zdes?

 Отправлено: 21.02.13 08:16. Заголовок: AvM пишет: Which sh..

AvM пишет:

цитата:

Which ships are here?

1st - Imperial navy bot (sloop) Kamchadal (about 1842). The only ship built in Alaska for the government and navy, not for RAC purposes.
2nd - steamboat "Baranov" (same time) . It may be also small steamboat "Moor" built by mechanic Moor in New Archangel before the "Baranov" and sold to California. But the author of that picture as i know arrived to Alaska after "Moor" was sold, so it is "Baranov".
3d is signed as i see. By the way, - who is the author of that "Menshikov" picture?

 Отправлено: 21.02.13 13:56. Заголовок: Глокий Куздр пишет: ..

Глокий Куздр пишет:

цитата:

1st - Imperial navy bot (sloop) Kamchadal (about 1842). The only ship built in Alaska for the government and navy, not for RAC purposes.

Yes, but the hulks , which ships they are?

цитата:

2nd - steamboat "Baranov" (same time) . It may be also small steamboat "Moor" built by mechanic Moor in New Archangel before the "Baranov" and sold to California. But the author of that picture as i know arrived to Alaska after "Moor" was sold, so it is "Baranov".

цитата:

3d is signed as i see. By the way, - who is the author of that "Menshikov" picture?

I have no data.

 Отправлено: 21.02.13 14:21. Заголовок: AvM пишет: Yes, but..

AvM пишет:

цитата:

Yes, but the hulks , which ships they are?

All ship on 1st picture have RAC crews on board (Kamchadal too, navy crew come on board in Petropavlovsk only). Hulks too. That boats are also mentioned in RAC papers, and during few decades in New Archangel always were two of them for service in Norfolk sound and nearby.

 Отправлено: 21.02.13 14:22. Заголовок: AvM пишет: I have n..

AvM пишет:

цитата:

I have no data.

May be name of book/article is known?

 Отправлено: 21.02.13 15:16. Заголовок: Richard A.Pierce ..

Richard A.Pierce
"Builders of Alaska. The Russian Governors 1818-1867"
Kingston, Ontario 1986

Based upon articles from "The Alaska Journal Vol 1:2 ,1971 through Vol 3:1 1973
(here could be pictures with better quality)

 Отправлено: 21.02.13 16:20. Заголовок: http://savepic.org/2..

 Отправлено: 21.02.13 17:49. Заголовок: Perhaps of that pict..

Perhaps of that picture exist better one?

 Отправлено: 21.02.13 20:23. Заголовок: AvM пишет: Perhaps ..

AvM пишет:

цитата:

Perhaps of that picture exist better one?

I dont know. All reproduction of all that pictures i have seen before are of pure quality. But the picture of Nikola I (the clipper) i had never seen before, thank you. I have only good color reproductions of Kamchadal and Baranov.

 Отправлено: 18.03.13 13:51. Заголовок: Two color version of..

Two color version of pictures with Sitka paddlers (but small ones):


And paint of clipper in chinese waters (I think it is Tsaritsa). Very small one, from christie's site

 Отправлено: 07.02.15 19:21. Заголовок: http://www.tandfonli..